Honors programs are competitive, but UVA law students and grads are extremely competitive among all applicants. They regularly get interviews and offers. Since government agencies don’t share stats, the most targeted information you can get is by asking your PSC counselor about success rates for the agencies you’re most interested in. As a very, very general rule of thumb, though, imagine that each honors position receives a few- to several-hundred candidates. Large agencies like the Department of Justice have upwards of 150 positions per year; smaller agencies might have single digit or low double-digit hiring.

I like to think of agency evaluation of candidates as a two-layered process. The first layer, which is more general, includes all of the holistic factors you might expect: grades, school ranking, whether you're on a law review or law journal, whether you've done moot court, mock trial, clinics and/or externships, and whether you have subject matter expertise or coursework that’s relevant to the agency. Honors programs also really value a strong and demonstrated commitment to public service, which can come through through activities like pro bono, summer internships, clinics, and prior work experience.

The second layer is whether or not you've worked at that agency. We have seen for years that students who intern or extern for a federal agency boost their chances exponentially. You might have a much lower GPA and get an honors position offer because you've interned or externed there. If you've never worked for the agency, you might not get an interview despite the fact that you have great paper credentials.

So what about grades? Grades do matter. Some agencies have specific hard cut offs; others don't. The ones that do, though, don't tend to have high cut-offs. So the IRS Office of Chief Counsel is a good example of an office that has a cut-off. They say they want people who are the top 25% of the class, or have a minimum GPA of 3.35, or if those factors aren't possible to ascertain, at least a 160 LSAT. Will it be harder to succeed if you have a mean or below-mean GPA? Yes. But it’s not unattainable. Talk with the Public Service Center about your particular agencies of interest and your grade range.

Finally, know that doing a judicial clerkship is a fantastic way to boost your competitiveness for any federal government honors position. Federal clerkships are great, of course, but state clerkships can also be very helpful for giving you that extra experience and credentials.

Yes, absolutely!

Broadly speaking, any kind of clerkship is relevant and valuable to an agency. A federal district court clerkship may be one of the most valuable because a lot of agency attorneys are litigating in federal district court. Appellate federal clerkships are also valuable for similar reasons. After that, state trial and appellate clerkships are still really valuable. And that's because you're still seeing litigants argue in court, you're researching and writing up cases, and you're getting great experience understanding how litigation works. So, really, any kind of clerkship is valuable for an honors program.

And if you have the bonus ability to be able to clerk in the same jurisdiction where the agency sits, that's a plus as well.

I think the best way to talk about job security during hiring freezes is to talk about what happened during the Great Recession and right afterwards. During that time, what we saw was that agencies oftentimes shrank the number of people in their programs. A few agencies suspended their programs for a year or two, but then brought them back. What we didn't see were people getting turned away or told “hey, sorry, you had an honors position, you don't anymore.” But we did see that on the law firm side. We saw people get deferred or just outright cut.

One nice thing about federal government hiring freezes is that it's always a political headline. You know it’s coming. And so there's a lot of attention and a lot of notice, as opposed to in the private sector.

Federal agencies also realize that honors programs are the lifeblood of their agencies and that if they do something draconian, law students are going to remember that. It’s going to have a bad reputational effect on them. I have heard that directly from agencies.

Finally, I have never heard of someone losing an expected permanent position after an honors attorney stint, due to budgetary constraints.

Overall, most agencies hire more of their attorneys through lateral hiring than through honors programs. That’s the main pro of lateral hiring, as well as the ability to start working in private practice to earn money before making a public service transition.

But the thing to know about lateral hiring is that it happens sporadically. That’s one of the cons. You might go three months, a year, or two years before a particular kind of position opens up at an agency. That will depend on how many people work in that kind of job and what needs that agency has at that moment. On the other hand, for instance, the Department of Justice might have 12 positions come open at the same time for honors attorneys in the Civil Rights Division. It’s going to be rare for that many to come open at the same time on the lateral side of things.

The third con is when agencies hire lateral attorneys, they have a particular kind of job and person in mind to start as soon as possible—not a year in the future. They have a particular set of specialized skills and experience that they need. So, when you're applying as a lateral candidate, you may or may not have exactly the length of experience or the type of experience that the office needs. (This is a little less the case when you’re talking about U.S. Attorney’s offices doing bread-and-butter new prosecutor hiring.)

At some agencies, too, lateral hiring can be very competitive because literally anyone can apply for those positions—the most senior to the most junior folks out there.

So what are the pros and cons of the honors program path? The main advantage is that you get to start right away doing the work you want to do. There are also training and exposure benefits. You usually rotate through a range of offices and practice areas, which will set you up well as a new attorney. You get special training and mentoring.

The second pro is that when you're applying as a 3L or a law clerk through an honors program, you're only competing with other people who look more or less like you. They don't have more years of legal experience. And the agencies that are hiring honors attorneys expect to train them. They don't expect you to come in with specialized skills and knowledge.

Finally, the main con of honors hiring is that there are only so many positions available in honors programs. Honors hiring happens once a year only, so if you don’t get a position then, you have no other honors options that year. Your best option would be to get a clerkship and then apply during the fall of your clerkship year.

Lateral hiring vs. honors hiring is very case-by-case, though, so it’s a good idea to check with the Public Service Center about your particular interests.

Administration shifts happen in all legal organizations—even firms and nonprofits—but they can be both more prominent and more structured in government offices. A the outset, there are some differences between federal and state civil government hiring, versus hiring in state/local prosecutors’ offices.

On the civil side, at the federal and state levels, there tends to be more insulation for most attorneys than in prosecutors’ offices. Now, if you are looking to be a personal attorney to a Commissioner or to be a political appointee, that is 100% political and this advice doesn't apply to you. But if you're interested in career positions, the news is great for stability. Federal agencies and state attorney generals’ offices have well-defined, stratified systems. You've got a thin layer of political chiefs and appointees at the top. Those people are policymakers. Those "front office" people have the ability to drive policy and change them and sometimes let go of certain people. But that's a thin layer. The vast majority of attorneys who work at places like the Department of Justice or state attorney generals’ offices and local goverment offices are career attorneys who work there administration after administration. And they are not let go because, if they were, then the whole operation would fall apart.

Having said this, there are always going to be certain offices, even at a state AG's office or in certain divisions of the Department of Justice, where you might feel more of a political influence and more impact during an administration change. Let’s say you’re working in voting rights for instance, or in civil rights. With administration shifts, you might see policy shifts in some areas of your work, but maybe not in others. I've had conversations with alumni who've been in highly politicized offices who have had both types of experiences—big shifts and minimal shifts.

As for prosecutorial offices, as in San Francisco, some offices in New York, or Larry Krasner's office in Philadelphia—sometimes you’ll see sweeping changes brought in by either really progressive prosecutors or traditional prosecutors. So it's going to depend a lot on the office. However, what I said above about civil side hiring also tends to be true: there’s usually a strong core of people who stay in prosecution offices as career prosecutors, who keep doing the work from administration to administration.

A lot of individual factors will drive this decision, but four big factors stand out for me.

First, there's a difference between LSC (Legal Services Corporation) funded legal aids and those that don't receive LSC funding. In a way, it's good to get LSC funding because that means you have very stable funding sources for your organization. On the other hand, LSC funding means that you're restricted in some of the practice areas and advocacy strategies you can use. So, for instance, you can't represent immigrants who have illegal status in this country or currently incarcerated folks. You can't engage in class action litigation or engage directly in legislative advocacy. And there are a few more things that are listed in the LSC Corporation website that restrict you.

Secondly, there's a lot of practice area variety among legal aid organizations. For instance, almost every legal aid does some kind of housing law work because it's so crucial, and they also probably do some kind of consumer protection work, like helping people with foreclosures and and unlawful debt practices. But apart from that, there's a lot of variety. Some might do domestic violence and family law; others don't. A lot of them don't do workers' rights. Some might engage in school law or youth advocacy. Many don't. And so the practice area and subjects that you're interested in will play a big role in your decision making.

Third, there are philosophical differences among legal aids. Some might prioritize a community lawyering or movement lawyering model of practice, where you are out more in the community. You might even have community organizers and advocates who work for your organization. Others might be more traditional, prioritizing the representation of more individuals. Case loads differ among legal aids, too.

Fourth and finally, though I think this applies to every kind of job--it’s important to think about how well this organization will be able to support you, especially early in your career. And I don't mean just providing training, but how well they create a culture that helps you sustain your career. How will they help you stay healthy and create meaningful work-life balance? If you want to try out new things, are they open to that? These types of answers might be hard to find online. But you can ask these questions in interviews and in individual conversations you have with people who work at that office.

There are so many things that could go into this, but five factors really stand out for me.

First, for any public defender's office (or prosecutor's office, for that matter), thinking about caseload is a threshold inquiry. That’s something that can be easily answered by the organization. You might even find information about that through a Google search. And how does the office advocate to keep it manageable; what policies does the office put into place to make it work? Then, in addition to that, how are the cases assigned? Are you, as a public defender, meeting with your client the first time after the client is arraigned, or is your office structured in such a way that you meet the client for the first time at a later phase in the proceedings? And do you care?

The second factor for me is how does career progression work in that office? In criminal law offices, both public defense and prosecution (unlike other public service offices), there's often a pretty structured system for how new attorneys will progress. Usually, it starts with the young public defender working in a fairly busy, misdemeanor part of a trial bureau. But what does it look like for this organization? What kind of support do you get at each phase? How long are you in each phase? If you want to branch out or go deeper into an area, what does that look like? Is there a long backlog for you to be able to move to a felony team or specialty team of some kind? So again, these issues may or may not apply to you, but it's another thing worth sussing out.

Number three, office philosophy. There are obviously a lot of ways in which offices can differ. But one of the big things now is whether the office embraces some kind of holistic defense or holistic lawyering perspective. And if they don't, then what kinds of civil legal supports and partner organization resources will your clients and you have access to? Another philosophical difference among public defenders can be whether they consider themselves to be true believers, or whether they're more focused on being more traditional trial lawyers. The kinds of organizations that a lot of our graduates gravitate toward tend to be more true believer organizations, but there are some large offices hiring 3Ls where the focus is more on traditional trial lawyering.

Number four, what the court system and prosecution offices look like for that public defender’s office. Are the judges and prosecutors reasonably receptive to reforms? Are they reasonably receptive to working with the public defender's office to provide the kinds of support and resources that your clients need? And maybe that doesn't matter to you because you're in it for the fight, but for many people, going to a place where it's not always so antagonistic can be another way of sustaining your career and feeling more fulfilled.

Fifth and finally, as with my thoughts for legal aid offices, how well would this office support you, especially early in your career? In addition to providing training, how will they help you stay healthy and balanced? Are the colleagues supportive of each other? Are there ways in which they've built a strong culture to make sure that people are staying healthy? These are all hard to suss out. But they're excellent questions to ask at the interview stage, or by talking with alumni who work in the office, or asking to speak to people who already work there.

There are basically two kinds of statewide, centralized PD offices. But before I explain that, let me just say that there are many states that have no centralized system. In New York, for instance, New York City has multiple public defender organizations that operate simultaneously in the same jurisdiction. And these defender offices can be either nonprofits or government organizations. For instance, in the Bronx, both the Legal Aid Society and the Bronx Defenders represent criminal defendants.

For statewide centralized systems, let’s call the first model the Colorado model. The Colorado model is highly centralized. Its statewide governing body looks at caseloads, salary, hires new law graduates and experienced attorneys, and exercises a statewide level of oversight in terms of who works in which office. If you're a 3L applying to be a public defender in Colorado, you go through the whole process and you interview with everybody and then you express your preferences for the top offices where you would like to work. And, based on the state's need for different people and staffing in those offices, you will get typically one of your top preferences.

Now, in the second model, which I'll call the Virginia model, there is less centralization when it comes to hiring. So, like Colorado, Virginia provides statewide oversight in terms of setting caseload standards, salary levels, and other policies that affect public defenders. But after you put in your application as a 3L to become a public defender in Virginia, you specify which offices you want to be considered for and then those individual offices will decide whether they want to interview you. Everything from that point on will look like you're just working with a single office in that location. There may also be some slight pay variations based on whether that office is able to provide an additional local supplement, and I'm not sure if that's always the case in a more cohesive statewide system like Colorado's.

If your public defender office of interest hires 3Ls before they've passed the bar exam, then your best option is to apply directly to the organization and start working as a permanent employee there. This is because your pay, job stability, and eligibility for retirement-qualifying service may all be impacted by being a fellow in the office (rather than a permanent employee). If your public defender office does not hire pre-bar, then a fellowship is a great route.

The good news is that right now most public defender offices that our graduates are interested in do hire 3Ls directly as permanent employees, which means you can start applying in the fall of your 3L year and have a reasonable chance of getting an offer well before you graduate. If the office doesn't, then what most students do is obtain a Kennedy Fellowship—the one year fellowship that the law school provides. It's not a competitive fellowship. You will get it if you are on the public service route. Then you take that fellowship and work at your public defender office for a period of months. You can work on the fellowship for as long as a year, but most graduates end up being able to convert to a permanent, full-time position before that 12 month period expires.

Finally, Gideon's Promise offers a fellowship-stye model just for public defenders. We’ve had a few UVA Law grads take that route. If you think you might be interested in a position through this organization, discuss it with your Public Service Center counselor, as there are additional procedures and rules that govern Gideon’s Promise fellows.

Getting an externally funded postgraduate fellowship is competitive! But what does competitive mean in this context? If you're thinking about grades, the good answer is that grades only play a very small role in the postgraduate fellowship process. And the only organization that cares about grades is the Skadden Foundation. So, for Equal Justice Works, Justice Catalyst and other funders, grades are peripheral or nonexistent factors. What these fellowship organizations are looking at is highly holistic. Many factors go into that assessment, such as your reason for wanting to work with a particular population or a particular cause. Do you have any experience that would help you be successful with your project? How do your experiences make you a good fit for the client community you want to serve and the kind of problems you want to work on? And do you have a strong host organization where you’d perform your project? Finally, unlike applications for a traditional job, the substance of your proposed fellowship project matters a lot. Is your project both ambitious and practical? Will it fill a gap by helping people who aren’t being helped now? Is the timing ripe for your project and you have the necessary infrastructure for it?

The really great news is that, even if you don’t get an externally funded postgraduate fellowship, you can do the same work by getting a non-competitive fellowship through UVA Law: the Robert F. Kennedy ‘51 Public Service Fellowships. Many UVA Law grads have done exactly that, and have successfully converted their fellowships into permanent positions at their organizations. We also have one 2-year fellowship for UVA Law folks only, the Powell Fellowship in Legal Services. Finally, you can apply to staff attorney positions at various organizations that hire 3Ls directly. Many of our 3Ls have gone that route, too.

As you can tell, though, project-based fellowships are involved and take time—it's not an overnight process. That’s why I teach a short course each spring, Postgraduate Public Interest Fellowships, to structure that process for students and give them the time and space (and academic credit) to explore their own fellowship ideas. I strongly recommend taking this class as a 2L if you're interested in pursuing a fellowship! 

Yes, you can have multiple sources of funding for a fellowship. So let's take Equal Justice Works as an example. EJW provides up to $62,000 per year to host organizations to fund a fellow, but requires host organizations to add to that salary if regular attorneys starting at their organizations would earn more. Skadden and Justice Catalyst don't require host organizations to provide extra funding, but they welcome it. All three expect host organizations to pay for health insurance and fringe benefits. Similarly, UVA Law’s fellowships (Kennedy and Powell) allow you to receive additional funding from host organizations or other sources.

The good news is that UVA Law provides a ton of support and wraparound services to help you launch a postgraduate fellowship.

Let’s start with the Public Service Center. The PSC counselors are very experienced at advising people about fellowships. And they enjoy it. They’ll work with you intensively and collaboratively over a period of weeks, even months, to get your project together, reach out to potential host organizations, prepare your applications, and get ready for interviews.

Secondly, when I became LPS director several years ago, one of the needs that I saw was creating more structure and planned time for students to explore postgrad fellowships. Figuring out what you care about and how to target potential projects and orgnizations requires an iterative approach. So, I created a one-credit short course, Postgraduate Fellowships, that I teach each spring for 2L and 3L students who might be interested in the fellowship route. It’s also become a great way for students to bond over the fellowship experience and support each other. I continue to provide advice to students in my class throughout the fellowship process and write recommendation letters for them.

Finally, the school as a whole has gotten behind fellowship support in a big way. We raised the salaries for both UVA Law fellowships—the Kennedy and Powell—a few years ago ($50,000 and $55,000 plus benefits, respectively) to make fellowship paths viable for folks.

If you haven’t checked them out already, take a few minutes to review the PSC’s postgraduate fellowship resources.